<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">Great idea<br><br><span>I've started collecting these at <a target="_blank" href="http://wiki.openaerialmap.org/Management">http://wiki.openaerialmap.org/Management</a></span><br><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> David William Bitner <david.bitner@gmail.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Mikel Maron <mikel_maron@yahoo.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Charles R. Schmidt <schmidtc@gmail.com>; talk@openaerialmap.org; David Loring <David.Loring@globalgroup.us.com><br><b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:37:37 AM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [OAM-talk] OAM meetup, background and agenda<br></font><br>
OSGeo is another option that has an official Sys Admin Team and has a mission that would support this project. We would want to have dedicated folks to work with the OSGeo SAC (sys admin committee) and with Telascience.<br>
<br>OSGeo could potentially also act as an umbrella organization for OAM.<br><br>David<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Mikel Maron <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com">mikel_maron@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div>
For OSM, we have ByteMark hosting these assets, with donated servers. They're a full service hosting company, and manage everything except the software on the machine. I think we can probably find a host willing to do this for us.<br>
<br>That still leaves someone responsible for maintaining these services. There an official sysadmin team for OSM.<br><br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<font size="2" face="Tahoma"><div class="im"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Charles R. Schmidt <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:schmidtc@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:schmidtc@gmail.com">schmidtc@gmail.com</a>><br></div>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Mikel Maron <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com">mikel_maron@yahoo.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> David Loring <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:David.Loring@globalgroup.us.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:David.Loring@globalgroup.us.com">David.Loring@globalgroup.us.com</a>>; <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:talk@openaerialmap.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:talk@openaerialmap.org">talk@openaerialmap.org</a>; Cristiano Giovando <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:giovand@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:giovand@gmail.com">giovand@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:26:55 AM<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [OAM-talk] OAM meetup, background and agenda<br>
</div></div></font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
Thanks go to Cristiano on this one. Currently domains and hosting are<br>managed by Cristiano and TerraPan Labs. We've talked about an OAM<br>Foundation in the past. This would be a good topic to put on the<br>agenda for Monterrey. Many of us still have connections at various<br>
universities and I think it would be reasonable to get much of the<br>"light weight" hosting (wiki, listserv, main web-interface) provided<br>by universities. Universities can be difficult environments as we've<br>
seen in the past, we'd need to find a faculty member or other<br>long-term employee willing to maintain the server. Servers left in<br>closets tend to be forgotten about and eventually discounted.<br><br>- Charlie.<br>
<br>On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Mikel Maron<<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com">mikel_maron@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>> Thanks for getting wiki hosting back up
Charles.<br>><br>> Certainly an issue we should discuss, in Monterrey or sooner. How will we<br>> structure management of core assets like domains and wiki hosting?<br>> For OpenStreetMap, we have the OSM Foundation. OAM Foundation?<br>
><br>> -Mikel<br>><br>> ________________________________<br>> From: Charles R. Schmidt <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:schmidtc@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:schmidtc@gmail.com">schmidtc@gmail.com</a>><br>> To: David Loring <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:David.Loring@globalgroup.us.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:David.Loring@globalgroup.us.com">David.Loring@globalgroup.us.com</a>><br>
> Cc: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:talk@openaerialmap.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:talk@openaerialmap.org">talk@openaerialmap.org</a><br>> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 8:02:00 AM<br>> Subject: Re: [OAM-talk] OAM meetup, background and agenda<br>><br>> Thanks David<br>
><br>> We'll keep the offer in mind. We should have our hosts back
up shortly.<br>><br>> - Charlie.<br>><br>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 7:40 AM, David<br>> Loring<<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:David.Loring@globalgroup.us.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:David.Loring@globalgroup.us.com">David.Loring@globalgroup.us.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Charles, is anyone resolving the hosting issues with OAM? I have<br>>> support from our management to host the service on our servers either<br>>> permanently or on a temporary basis.<br>>><br>
>> David.<br>>><br>>> -----Original Message-----<br>>> From: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:talk-bounces@openaerialmap.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:talk-bounces@openaerialmap.org">talk-bounces@openaerialmap.org</a><br>>> [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:talk-bounces@openaerialmap.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:talk-bounces@openaerialmap.org">talk-bounces@openaerialmap.org</a>] On Behalf Of Charles R. Schmidt<br>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:56 PM<br>>> To: Mikel
Maron<br>>> Cc: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:talk@openaerialmap.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:talk@openaerialmap.org">talk@openaerialmap.org</a><br>>> Subject: Re: [OAM-talk] OAM meetup, background and agenda<br>>><br>>> Hi All,<br>>><br>
>> I've cleaned up the OAM reboot page and stubbed an outline to help us<br>>> achieve an agenda for Monterey and a longer-term roadmap. Please feel<br>>> free to re-shuffle as needed, but lets make sure we have a thorough<br>
>> discussion of what goals we want this project to achieve. There is<br>>> clearly some misunderstanding here and it would be helpful to get<br>>> everyone on the same page moving forward.<br>>><br>
<span><span>>> <a target="_blank" href="http://wiki.openaerialmap.org/OAM_2009">http://wiki.openaerialmap.org/OAM_2009</a></span></span><br>>><br>>> - Charlie.<br>>><br>>><br>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Mikel
Maron<<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com">mikel_maron@yahoo.com</a>><br>>> wrote:<br>>>> Hi<br>>>><br>>>> Want to give some background and structure to the proposed OAM design<br>
>>> workshop.<br>>>><br>>>> Camp Roberts. Last week, David Bitner, Chris Lippitt, and a bunch of<br>>> other<br>>>> great folks participated in RELIEF experiements coordinated by<br>
>> Star-Tides<br><span><span>>>> [<a target="_blank" href="http://star-tides.net/">http://star-tides.net/</a>] and the Naval Postgraduate School</span></span><br><span><span>>>> [<a target="_blank" href="http://www.nps.edu/">http://www.nps.edu/</a>]. We went to test software integrations and</span></span><br>
>> simulate<br>>>> field conditions that mapping projects for humanitarian relief would<br>>> face in<br>>>> places like Afghanistan. Most of the
groups involved, like myself<br>>>> representing OpenStreetMap, blogged about the awesome work there,<br><span><span>>>> recommended reading... <a target="_blank" href="http://delicious.com/tag/camproberts">http://delicious.com/tag/camproberts</a></span></span><br>
>>><br>>>> The main driver for the week was the NGA authorization to share<br>>> sub-meter<br>>>> resolution imagery of eastern Aghanistan with "civilian partners".<br>>> Google<br>
>>> brought down a Fusion server, and had that hefty server producing<br>>> tiles.<br>>>> That job ran overnight and saved tiles to a portable drive that is now<br>>>> sitting in the only bar in eastern Afghanistan. Though this is very<br>
>> very<br>>>> awesome, we lamented that this was the only resulting copy of this<br>>> imagery,<br>>>> and the uplink from that bar is not conducive to downloading
hundreds<br>>> of<br>>>> gigabytes of data.<br>>>><br>>>> We naturally started talking about OpenAerialMap. OpenStreetMap had an<br>>>> excellent showing last week, providing data and integrating in<br>
>> multiple ways<br>>>> .. why wasn't the same concept working for aerial imagery despite<br>>> everyone's<br>>>> herculian efforts over the last couple years? Well we all know the<br>
>> story<br>>>> here thanks to Chris's write up on the real world experience on his<br>>> awesome<br>>>> app, Cristiano's workshop at SOTM, and the thorough threads from<br>>> yesterday.<br>
>>> In my view, basically OSM could succeed because its resource curve was<br>>> not<br>>>> steep, allowing for a very small group of folks to build something<br>>> usable,<br>>>> and giving space for a community to form, step up and offer
resources<br>>> as<br>>>> needed. OAM is not in this position. The processing and storage<br>>> requirements<br>>>> of rasters versus vectors means that, from the start, a great deal of<br>
>>> resources need to be on hand OR a great deal of cooperation needs to<br>>> be in<br>>>> place.<br>>>><br>>>> We have tried to coordinate OAM over the list and wiki for the past<br>
>> couple<br>>>> years. There has been much exploration and hacking on ideas. Yet, we<br>>> remain<br>>>> today without a concrete steps forward. After the quick work at Camp<br>>>> Roberts, it's clear that what OAM has lacked is a clearly articulated<br>
>> set of<br>>>> use cases and plan to drive the project. We feel that face-to-face<br>>> time<br>>>> among interested parties would help clarify these use cases, and form<br>>> a
plan<br>>>> for moving forward.<br>>>><br>>>> MONTERREY<br>>>><br>>>> When the sponsors of the Camp Roberts exercises, the Naval<br>>> Postgraduate<br>>>> School and Star-Tides, heard this story, they were intriguied and now<br>
>> want<br>>>> to help. They are looking into the possibility of hosting a 3 day<br>>> design<br>>>> workshop at NPS, and possibly covering some travel costs. This would<br>>> be a<br>
>>> very generous offer that could set OAM in the right direction.<br>
>>><br>>>> The goal of the workshop would be to produce an achievable roadmap for<br>>> the<br>>>> development of OAM. There seems to be general consensus already that<br>>> some<br>
>>> kind of federated structure is the way forward. Many details within<br>>> that<br>>>> need to be worked out. In the time preceeding
the workshop, we'd want<br>>> to<br>>>> debate and capture as many ideas as possible. I heartily second<br>>> David's call<br>>>> to start feeding discussion into wiki pages, and Richard's call to<br>
>> work<br>>>> towards a meeting agenda. In my mind, here's a few of the general<br>>> types of<br>>>> things we want to capture, perhaps each on a seperate page of the<br>>> wiki. This<br>
>>> could be something like a structured brainstorming, with the pros and<br>>> cons<br>>>> of all ideas laid out, an attempt to catalog the thinking of everyone<br>>> in the<br>>>> community.<br>
>>><br>>>> * Use and Problem Cases. To drive the design process. We've seen<br>>> everything<br>>>> from someone wanting to share photos from their DIYUAV, to small<br>>>> municipalities posting their imagery, to complete global
coverage.<br>>>> * Goals. What are the potential goals.<br>>>> * Current Data Sources. Potential Data Sources. Who is offering, where<br>>> is<br>>>> the data, what is the format.<br>>>> * Licensing. Imagery is available in many licenses. What are possible<br>
>> ways<br>>>> to deal with this complexity?<br>>>> * Architecture. What does a federated imagery sharing system look<br>>> like?<br>>>> Perhaps we could divide this up into a number of different scenarios,<br>
>> that<br>>>> cover a broad number of ideas .. everything from a very simple<br>>> catalog, to<br>>>> blue sky dreams.<br>>>> * Standards. What's out there and what's missing?<br>
>>> * Tools and potential code. What are our building blocks?<br>>>> * Potential Hardware and Hosting. Even in a distributed model, someone<br>>> needs<br>>>> to
offer up resources for this thing to run.<br>>>> * Interested individuals. Your organization and general take on OAM.<br>>>><br>>>> Would anyone be ready to step up and take this, or some other suitable<br>
>>> structure, and create stubs, etc in the OAM wiki??<br>>>><br>>>> In this wiki brainstorming, we can remain open to what OAM actually<br>>> is. In<br>>>> the most general sense, many folks want a way to easily share and<br>
>> combine<br>>>> aerial imagery.<br>>>><br>>>> Once we get to the workshop stage, the driving goal will be to take<br>>> the<br>>>> collected ideas through consensus into a workable design roadmap. What<br>
>> is<br>>>> achievable in the next six months? What ideas are years away and how<br>>> do we<br>>>> possibly get there? If we make quick work of the roadmap, there may<br>>>
also be<br>>>> time for some quick prototyping and hacking. Components of the roadmap<br>>> could<br>>>> possibly be developed into fundable projects, and acts as motivation<br>>> towards<br>
>>> more cooperative imagery licensing within the US government.<br>>>><br>>>> PRACTICALITIES<br>>>><br>>>> At this moment, we're still waiting for specifics from NPS. We'd like<br>
>> to see<br>>>> a quorum of core interested people attend in person. Myself and John<br>>> Crowley<br>>>> from Star-Tides would like to take a neutral faciliation role to help<br>>> the<br>
>>> process. For those that can't attend, we would make every effort to<br>>> include<br>>>> remote participants, through IRC or Skype. The results need to be<br>>> acceptable<br>>>> to the OAM community as a whole.<br>
>>><br>>>> Perhaps
these questions can be briefly answered by everyone in the<br>>> wiki.<br>>>><br>>>> Who? Who's interested to attend. There's a pratical limit to the size<br>>> of the<br>>>> workshop. Want to make sure the workshop is representative. Thinking<br>
>> that a<br>>>> very brief application process might be called for.<br>>>><br>>>> When? Over the next couple months, which weekends are possible for the<br>>>> greatest number of these people. Sometime in last half of September,<br>
>> first<br>>>> half of October.<br>>>><br>>>> Where? NPS is in Monterrey. Realize that's more difficult for some<br>>> than<br>>>> others, but that will be the case for this globe spanning project.<br>
>> There<br>>>> will potentially be support in place.<br>>>><br>>>> OK!<br>>>><br>>>> Eager to hear your
thoughts on this plan, who and when, and most<br>>> especially<br>>>> seeing the discussion translated into the wiki.<br>>>><br>>>> Cheers<br>>>> Mikel<br>>>><br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> talk mailing list<br>>>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:talk@openaerialmap.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:talk@openaerialmap.org">talk@openaerialmap.org</a><br><span><span>>>> <a target="_blank" href="http://openaerialmap.org/mailman/listinfo/talk_openaerialmap.org">http://openaerialmap.org/mailman/listinfo/talk_openaerialmap.org</a></span></span><br>
>>><br>>>><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> talk mailing list<br>>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:talk@openaerialmap.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:talk@openaerialmap.org">talk@openaerialmap.org</a><br>
>> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://openaerialmap.org/mailman/listinfo/talk_openaerialmap.org">http://openaerialmap.org/mailman/listinfo/talk_openaerialmap.org</a><br>>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>
> talk mailing list<br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:talk@openaerialmap.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:talk@openaerialmap.org">talk@openaerialmap.org</a><br>> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://openaerialmap.org/mailman/listinfo/talk_openaerialmap.org">http://openaerialmap.org/mailman/listinfo/talk_openaerialmap.org</a><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>************************************<br>David William Bitner<br>
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